1 1 2 -----------------------------------------------x 3 THE COUNCIL OF RESEARCH EXCELLENCE 4 INAUGURAL MEETING 5 -----------------------------------------------x June 8, 2005 6 9:30 a.m. 7 8 9 10 Coudert Brothers 11 W.R. Grace Building 12 1114 Avenue of the 13 Americas at 42nd Street 14 New York, New York 15 16 17 18 19 20 REGENCY REPORTING, INC. 21 Certified Shorthand Reporters & Videographers 22 575 Madison Avenue 23 New York, New York 10022 24 (212) 354-0492 Facsimile: (212) 354-0499 25 www.regencyreporting.net 2 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S: 3 BOARD MEMBERS: 4 RICHARD ZACKON, Facilitator 5 MARK KALINE, Chair, Global Media Manager, Ford Motor Company 6 AMBER ROBERTS, Assistant 7 LARRY BOBO, Professor of Sociology, Stanford University 8 TIM BROOKS, The Advertising Research Foundation 9 JOANNE BURNS, Exec. VP Marketing, Research and New Media 10 20th Television, Fox 11 SUSAN CUCCINELLO, SVP of Research, TVB 12 HENRY DeVAULT, SVP Audience Analysis, ABC, Inc. 13 PAUL DONATO, SVP/Chief Research Officer, Nielsen Media Research 14 BETSY FRANK, EVP, Research and Planning, Viacom's Cable 15 Networks, Film and Publishing 16 NANCY GALLAGHER, SVP News Sports and Affiliate Research, NBC Universal 17 BRUCE GOERLICH, EVP, Director Strategic Resources, 18 Zenith Optimedia 19 DAVID GUNZERATH, VP, Research and Planning, NAB 20 MIKE HESS, Director of Global Research and Communication Insights, OMD Worldwide 21 GEORGE IVIE, EExecutive Director, MRC 22 PAT LIGUORI, VP of Research, ABC Owned Television 23 Stations 24 JESSICA PANTANINI, Chief Operations Officer, Bromley Communications 25 3 1 2 A P P E A R A N C E S: (cont'd) 3 DAVID POLTRACK, EVP, Planning & Research, CBS 4 JOHN REARDON, Group Vice President, Tribune Broadcasting 5 LYLE SCHWARTZ, SVP, Media Director of Broadcast, Mediaedge:CIA 6 CERIL SHAGRIN, SVP Corporate Research, Univision 7 HOWARD SHIMMEL, SVP, Client Insights, Nielsen Media 8 Research 9 JONATHAN SIMS, VP of Research, Comcast Spotlight 10 STEVE STERNBERG, EVP, Director of Audience Analysis, Magna Global 11 IRA SUSSMAN, VP Research & Insight, CAB 12 JACK WAKSHLAG, Chief Research Officer, Turner 13 Broadcasting 14 ALAN WURTZEL, President Research and Media Development, NBC 15 16 (Present via phone.) 17 PERIANNE GRIGNON, Director of Media Services, Sears, 18 Roebuck and Co. 19 RICK KEILTY, SVP Television Group, Belo Corporation 20 21 A L S O P R E S E N T: 22 ROBERT M. LEVINE, CM 23 Court Reporter 24 25 4 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. KALINE: Good morning, folks. 3 We're going to try to get this meeting going 4 on time and finish on time, as we promised in 5 the notes that went out. 6 I'm Mark Kaline. I'm with the 7 Ford Motor Company. I've had the pleasure of 8 meeting many of you at either MRC meetings or 9 ARF meetings or ANA meetings, or something 10 like that. So for those of you that I 11 haven't had a chance to meet, I look forward 12 to getting to know you a little bit better. 13 We're going to go around the room 14 in a little bit and around the phone a little 15 bit just for introductions on who's here and 16 who's not. But I thought I'd just start off 17 with a couple of comments with why I'm 18 involved in this whole thing and why I think 19 it's important that we are all sitting here 20 at a table together. 21 And really, first of all, it's an 22 unique opportunity for us all to come 23 together as an industry and collaborate to 24 really identify issues that have a shared 25 interest on the issues we're dealing with as 5 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 companies and our shareholders are dealing 3 with. 4 And one of the things I face at 5 Ford a lot is the inevitable question, you 6 know, what's happening with media. People 7 read the trades just like we read the trades. 8 And, unfortunately, they take sound bites 9 away. Like TV's dying. You know, nobody's 10 watching commercials anymore. And so on and 11 so forth. And that tends to reverberate 12 through a company like Ford Motor Company in 13 a way that is tough to keep up, with quite 14 frankly. 15 And so, you know, it's imperative 16 that we get immersed, and get our hands dirty 17 a little bit as clients to help shape what we 18 think media measurement and marketing 19 measurement should be going forward. So 20 that's why a lot of these folks see a lot of 21 me bouncing in and out of town from Detroit. 22 Henry said "Where do you live?" And it's in 23 the Northwest World Club is where I live, to 24 be quite honest with you. 25 But really, the goal here is to 6 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 collectively try to come together to see if 3 we can move the business forward. And I 4 think that's a shared goal we can all get 5 behind. 6 And I'll be the first to say, you 7 know, advertisers have been quick to 8 complain. But we've been kind of on the 9 outside looking in. We've used our agencies 10 as proxies to, you know, kind of carry our 11 torch. But at the same time we've pared down 12 what our agencies have in terms of resources 13 in terms of size of staff, and so on and so 14 forth. 15 So it's become increasingly 16 important that we double back and get 17 involved. Because as I like to say when it 18 comes to voting, you can't complain if you 19 weren't part of the process in the first 20 place. 21 So, you know, if I were to look 22 at, take Nielsen as an example. If I were to 23 look at Nielsen as an employee, I don't think 24 we've given as advertisers, Nielsen, the kind 25 of direction and leadership that we need to 7 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 give them in order to meet our needs, quite 3 frankly, in an ever-changing world. 4 And so I have a hard time giving 5 them a performance review at the end of a 6 given year when, I, myself, haven't given 7 them clear objectives on what it is that 8 we're looking for them to accomplish. And 9 we've nibbled at this from the outside. The 10 ANA has done some things. We've done some 11 things through joint efforts with the four As 12 and all. 13 But it's really time for to us 14 sit down, collaborate, and figure out where 15 it is we're going to be going. Because if we 16 don't have a vision for five years out from 17 now of where we want to be, we're going to 18 miss it completely. And I think that's 19 something that I'd like long term for this 20 group to be able to think about; is where do 21 we want to be in five years and how do we get 22 all media pointed in that direction so that 23 we can be a little bit closer to the mark. 24 We may not be right. And we can't be scared 25 of being wrong. But we'll be a lot closer 8 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 than if we sit here and just pick at it piece 3 by piece. 4 You know, I think if we had that 5 kind of a focus, and maybe coming out of this 6 group we'll end up with a couple of projects 7 that we can, you know, jointly put our 8 efforts behind and our brain power behind. 9 You know, this is a new model, quite frankly. 10 And it may end up being something 11 that we can take to other media. It may be 12 something we can leverage to help make the 13 business better on not only the television 14 side, but I'll call it the content and video 15 side of life. Because it's not just about 16 television anymore. 17 So I'm looking forward to it. 18 I'm excited that Nielsen has given us this 19 opportunity to get together. Has offered up 20 some resources to help grease the skids a 21 little bit. And we'll take it from there. 22 And with that, I'd just like to 23 turn it over to Betsy who has got a couple of 24 comments too. 25 MS. FRANK: Yes. Well, when 9 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 Richard and I talked, I guess a couple of 3 weeks ago, he said, "Could you share that 4 with the group?" And I thought I was 5 babbling, but I welcome any opportunity to 6 babble in front of an even larger audience. 7 So the gist of what I said to him 8 was that I thought the timing of this 9 meeting, and, in fact, of Nielsen's R&D 10 initiative seemed particularly appropriate. 11 I think the various segments of Nielsen's 12 client base who are represented in this room, 13 being a master of understatement, have in the 14 past not necessarily seen eye to eye on many 15 industry issues. 16 After all, we all have divergent 17 and often polarized business interests. And 18 that has often resulted in inconsistent 19 messages that we communicate to Nielsen. 20 Now, I'm not saying that this was 21 the only reason Nielsen didn't move fast 22 enough in the past or why they may have made, 23 say, one or two squeaky wheel kind of 24 decisions. But it certainly didn't help. 25 Now, those diverging business 10 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 interests are certainly not going away 3 anytime soon. But my sense is that there has 4 been a change taking place that we can only 5 hope will mean, to echo you, Mark, a more 6 collaborative participation in establishing 7 the goals and outcomes for this group. And 8 then delivering them. 9 Feels to me like over the past 10 year, and even especially in the last maybe 11 six to eight months, the landscape, and 12 that's been driven primarily by more people 13 having more access to more technology, all 14 the changes that are taking place have become 15 pretty much undeniable. And, at the same 16 time, again to echo your point, the 17 effectiveness of advertising, particularly 18 television advertising feels to me has never 19 been as much in question or questioned, I 20 should say, as it is now. 21 And certainly part of this 22 perception is driven by Nielsen's recent 23 announcements on plans for DVR measurement, 24 plans for VOD measurement, and the release of 25 minute-by-minute respondent level ratings. 11 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 The fact is, whether you're a 3 media buyer, a media seller, or a marketer, 4 we are all facing the same challenges. And 5 again, I echo you, breaking through the 6 complexity of choices that consumers are 7 facing, reaching point people that we need to 8 reach with our messages, and doing it in a 9 way that engages them and influences them to 10 act. 11 Yes, it's true, we share the same 12 customers and we share the same challenges. 13 And one of those challenges is assuring that 14 as long as television is valuable to 15 audiences and relevant to audiences. And 16 again, you know, just look at the Nielsen 17 numbers. And you see that people are still 18 watching a lot of television. Television is 19 not becoming any less important to audiences. 20 That television advertising, as it evolves, 21 remains an important way that we all have to 22 reach them. 23 Now, I'm not suggesting anything 24 unrealistic and Pollyanish, like park your 25 business interests at the door. Because we 12 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 all know ourselves well enough to know that 3 we're not going to do that. But I am 4 suggesting that our best opportunity is to 5 work together to find the solutions to 6 partner, to collaborate, to figure out how 7 our respective businesses, as well as the 8 overall business of marketing and advertising 9 can remain vibrant and successful in the 10 future. 11 None of us can do it by 12 ourselves. We can't do it. We can't do it 13 without our advertising partners. And our 14 advertising partners can't do it with media 15 companies. We all participate in industry 16 groups, trade associations, technology 17 consortiums. 18 But as I have continually pointed 19 out to Nielsen, to Paul in particular, they 20 have a unique and critical role in our 21 business. And as a result, to me this 22 initiative represents a real opportunity to 23 make sure that the currency through which we 24 assign value and we negotiate evolves along 25 with our businesses. And doesn't get left 13 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 behind. 3 MR. KALINE: Great. Thanks 4 Betsy. 5 I just would like to add a little 6 extra comment on the back end of that. Some 7 of you have heard me say this in various 8 forums. But the enemy is not those of us 9 sitting around the table. And I don't like 10 to use the word enemy, because we're supposed 11 to be collaborative here. But the enemy is 12 rebates. The enemy is a different kind of 13 marketing that we as marketers understand 14 that pulls away from advertising and 15 marketing in the traditional sense. Because 16 we are able to measure what we do more 17 finitely. 18 My folks at Ford, and I'm sure 19 the folks at GM, and if any of you have seen 20 any of, you know, you can get an employee 21 discount program at GM. That's a rebate, 22 folks. And you can call it what you want. 23 You can market it any way you want. But it's 24 an extra couple of thousand dollars on each 25 car. And that's coming from somewhere. And 14 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 I can tell you where the most flexible pool 3 of money is in any given big industry right 4 now. It's the marketing pool. 5 And so we need to sit down and 6 figure out how to not only address the 7 efficiencies and currency of our industry. 8 But also the efficacy of what it contributes 9 to our business overall. 10 Somebody said we've got to invent 11 a new currency for television. I said, well, 12 currency's great. But if you're not on the 13 plan it doesn't matter very much. So I would 14 just advise everybody to, you know, let's 15 work together. And yes, wear an industry 16 hat. Bring your best thinking. I'm 17 impressed just by seeing the names around the 18 table. I have to say that we've got, you 19 know, we've got some really bright people 20 here. And I think we can come up with some 21 direction that we can give Nielsen to take 22 the business forward. 23 So with that are we going to go 24 around the room now and introduce people? 25 MR. Zackon: Before we do, I'm 15 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 Richard Zackon, by the way. I have a couple 3 of comments to make too. We have a 4 timekeeper here today. One of the concerns 5 is a lot of people expressed was people 6 sometimes go on. And so we'll have 30 7 seconds each. 8 And Amber, do you want to ring 9 the bell. 10 MR. Zackon: If you hear the bell, 11 please finish. That way we'll end on time. 12 So just introduce yourself, where you work, 13 and what's the outcome you would like to see 14 happen out of this whole effort. 15 Now, the outcome might be that 16 Nielsen takes a new direction in research. 17 Or the outcome may be that this industry 18 speaks for each other in more powerful ways, 19 or whatever it is. Not an outcome like a 20 particular issue. But something bigger than 21 that that you would really like to see happen 22 out of the initiative. 23 MR. KALINE: You want to start 24 Lyle, do you mind? 25 MR. SCHWARTZ: I'm Lyle Schwartz. 16 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 I work in Mediaedge in Market Analysis and 3 Research. 4 I guess what I'd like to see 5 coming out of this group is a more 6 collaborative effort for everybody. And two, 7 when we make our recommended changes in the 8 industry. We really understand the business 9 implications of what we're doing so that we 10 understand how it impacts all of our 11 businesses individually, as well as any other 12 things that we are involved in. 13 MR. SUSSMAN: I'm Ira Sussman. 14 I'm with the Cable Television Advertising 15 Bureau. 16 I think what I'm excited about 17 this group together is if we could all rise 18 above kind of our individual interests in 19 looking at how do we get research on a better 20 path moving a little faster and working with 21 the MRC and other groups we try to do this in 22 different ways. But I think this is a very 23 interesting group we have together today. 24 Hoping that we can find a new path. 25 MR. WURTZEL: Alan Wurtzel from 17 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 NBC Universal. 3 I'd just like to sort of 4 encourage Nielsen to get more empirical with 5 respect to how they evaluate some of the 6 major methodology issues that wind up being 7 used, you know, in the measuring systems. 8 MS. GALLAGHER: I'm Nancy 9 Gallagher, NBC Universal. 10 I think I'd like to see, you 11 know, kind of a concensus on some really 12 major concerns that the industry has in the 13 group. And act and plan that way. 14 MS. CUCCINELLO: I'm Susan 15 Cuccinello with the Television Bureau of 16 Advertising. 17 Mark, some of what you said in 18 your opening remarks is what I'm hoping for 19 too in terms of being prepared five years 20 ahead, three years ahead with new technology. 21 How commercials and advertising and 22 programming is getting to consumers. That 23 Nielsen's ready to measure it and report on 24 it. And, you know, give more people less to 25 complain about in terms of the product that's 18 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 there. So that the conversations can really 3 be about the bottom line and business that 4 we're all in. That's what I'm looking for. 5 MR. GUNZERATH: I'm David 6 Gunzerath. I'm with the National Association 7 of Broadcasters. 8 And just to echo what a number of 9 people have already said, I mean, I'm hoping 10 that greater cross-industry collaboration can 11 come of this. And that at the end of the day 12 that there's an improved perception within 13 the industry on how decisions are made that 14 affect their lives. 15 MR. IVIE: I'm George Ivie. I'm 16 with the Media Rating Council. 17 I'd like to see a true long-term 18 collaboration evolve between Nielsen and 19 Nielsen's clients on the priorities and 20 conduct of R&D for television research evolve 21 out of this group. Something the MRC doesn't 22 do. We're very production-focused or near 23 production-focused. But this I see as much 24 more forward-looking. 25 Second thing I'd like to see is 19 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 back in January the MRC suggested an 3 industrywide effort to conduct R&D. And I'd 4 like to see us reconcile this effort with 5 that effort somehow. 6 MR. STERNBERG: I'm Steve 7 Sternberg, Director of Audience Analysis at 8 Magna Global. 9 I think that one thing I'd like 10 to get out of these meetings is at the end of 11 each meeting to feel like we accomplished 12 something rather than simply saying to myself 13 why did I agree to be on another committee. 14 MR. BROOKS: I'm Tim Brooks, 15 Lifetime Television and Chair of the ARF 16 Video Council. 17 And I think that methodological 18 research and the direction of it 19 fundamentally needs to move from suppliers to 20 buyers. And that in order to give suppliers 21 a research, not only Nielsen, not only 22 television, but in all fields direction in 23 this rapidly changing environment, the use of 24 research need to basically direct the areas 25 of importance in research. 20 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. DeVAULT: I'm Henry DeVault 3 from ABC. I think that this is a good first 4 step and initiative. I hope that it's the 5 beginning of a long-term initiative in which 6 Nielsen will give their clients an 7 opportunity to contribute to the future 8 growth and direction of their company. 9 I think it's a valuable 10 opportunity for a lot of the clients to move 11 from critics to constructive critics where 12 they can make suggestions and recommendations 13 that Nielsen will follow in the future. 14 One of the things or tools I use 15 for people who work for me is say "when you 16 bring a problem to me, bring solutions as 17 well." And I hope that this committee will 18 be on that track. 19 MR. POLTRACK: I'm David Poltrack 20 from CBS. 21 I guess I have two goals. The 22 first one is I think it's very critical that 23 we validate for our respective clients and 24 also for the population of the public in 25 general, the audience measurement systems so 21 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 that everyone feels very comfortable that it 3 is representing the true viewing patterns of 4 the nation. 5 And the second thing is I think 6 that to shift the audience measurement in the 7 direction that it's a better measure of the 8 efficacy of advertising and it gives our 9 collective clients a sense of confidence in 10 the medium. 11 MS. FRANK: I'm Betsy Frank. I 12 represent for this meeting Viacom Cable 13 Networks. And I think you know what my goals 14 are. So I'll forfeit the rest of my time. 15 You have it, Mike. 16 MR. HESS: I will keep it short. 17 Mike Hess, Global Research Director from OMD. 18 Being on the media buyer's side, 19 I'm particularly interested in the new media. 20 And I'd like this committee to come up, at 21 least for one of our projects, with suitable 22 mechanisms to measure and take into account 23 the new media. 24 That said, I think the change is 25 something that not only have we experienced, 22 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 but we will continue to experience. And so 3 when I hear comments about that, "the next 4 currency," while I'm sensitive to the fact we 5 probably need an improved currency 6 measurement, I think at the end of the day, 7 the project should reflect the fact that I 8 think change for the next few years will 9 actually be baked into the system. 10 So we may not be able to come up 11 with a currency. At some point in time, yes, 12 that's the next stable one, but rather just 13 reflect the baked-in nature of change. 14 MR. REARDON: I'm John Reardon 15 with Tribune Broadcasting. 16 And I'm just looking for a 17 collaborate effort with Nielsen. And all of 18 you to really have a currency that reflects 19 the time that we're in. And we're all 20 working together and able to dissect it and 21 figure out where we're going the next five 22 years. 23 MS. BURNS: Joanne Burns, 20th 24 Television Fox. 25 I will echo Mike. Certainly 23 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 collaborative. I don't want to put that 3 aside. But as a content provider, as a 4 syndicator, my content is going out to all 5 forms of media. And for me, I want to 6 understand how that media is being used. 7 Nielsen needs to measure it. But before we 8 can measure it, we have to understand how 9 it's being used. 10 And I think that's a missing link 11 that we all have here. We get the numbers 12 and we report it. But we don't understand. 13 Because then they ask me back at my company, 14 well, why. You have to understand the 15 behavior of the consumer before you can 16 answer the why of the measurement. And 17 that's what I'd like to learn. 18 MR. SHIMMEL: I'm Howard Shimmel, 19 Nielsen Media Research. 20 Echoing what Susan said, I'd like 21 the brain power in this group to really put a 22 line in the sand of what we think the world 23 is going to be in 2010, five years out. And 24 that we design the methodological research 25 program that we're going to need to be 24 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 prepared for that instead of reacting to what 3 happens then. 4 MR. SIMS: My name's Jonathan 5 Sims. I'm with Comcast Spotlight. 6 And Howard took the words right 7 out of my mouth. Important that a few 8 pressure points we can apply here are 9 definitely forward-looking to what TV will be 10 one day and how we can come to grips with it 11 today and understand and design research. 12 MR. GOERLICH: I'm Bruce 13 Goerlich, representative of Optimedia. And 14 Kate Sirkin of Starcom. 15 Of particular interest of mine is 16 not just the changing dynamics of television 17 but the changing dynamics of the American 18 population. And how we understand those 19 changes and how those relate to television 20 viewing. And our need to perhaps talk to 21 different populations, recruit them, and deal 22 with them differently. 23 I also think it's very important 24 that in our next meeting we have a room where 25 we can all see each other. So that will be a 25 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 specific goal that I would like. 3 MR. WAKSHLAG: I'm Wakshlag from 4 Turner Broadcasting. I'm looking for an open 5 process that fosters measurement innovation 6 and innovative thinking in measurement. I'd 7 like to see us have fairly soon an open R&D 8 lab that advances the quality of quantitative 9 media measurement. 10 MS. SHAGRIN: I'm Ceril Shagrin, 11 Corporate Research, Univision. 12 I want to say all of the above 13 and I'll assume raise it by saying I would 14 feel that this group is a success if we 15 directed Nielsen towards research that deals 16 greater reliability in the IN estimates. 17 Which would include a complete measurement of 18 all of the persons and all of the vehicles 19 that deliver messages, that deliver media. 20 With an end result of restoring confidence in 21 the IN listings. 22 MR. BOBO: My name is Larry Bobo. 23 I'm from Stanford University. I bring not 24 much about investment in particular outcomes 25 here, but a real interest in how to try to 26 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 improve measurement and measurement 3 strategies for studying how people interact 4 with various media. And that's my investment 5 here in a sense. 6 MS. LIGUORI: I'm Pat Liguori 7 from ABC Owned Television Stations. 8 There are two things which we 9 have very little, if any, control over. One 10 is the technology of media and the other is 11 human nature. And I would hope that with the 12 various areas of the industry represented 13 here, I'm just wondering if possibly radio 14 should be here. 15 I would hope we'd be able to put 16 together a perspective that would help us 17 anticipate the future. And how we will best 18 deal with it, not only from the technical, 19 technological aspect, but also the 20 behavioral. Because that is crucial. 21 MR. DONATO: I'm Paul Donato, 22 Chief Research Officer for Nielsen. 23 So I'd like to welcome you all. 24 Thank you for coming. And I do have some 25 comments coming up in a few minutes. 27 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 So at the risk of being my own 3 30-second timer, I would just say better 4 television, which is really a reiteration of 5 what everybody has said here. 6 And I think what's very 7 important, one element that's been suggested 8 is collaboration. And I think it's really a 9 great opportunity to think about how it is 10 that we would collaborate moving forward. We 11 have a lot of decisions to make, for example, 12 about even things that seem so pedestrian, 13 like voting structures. 14 But how you vote, I mean, you 15 know, how do you balance the interests of all 16 the different elements in television and how 17 do you balance speed versus the need for 18 quality. So Nielsen is hoping to get some 19 direction from its broad client base in terms 20 of making those decisions moving forward. 21 MS. PANTANINI: I'm Jessica 22 Pantanini. I'm probably the lesser known of 23 the group. I'm the CO of Bromley 24 Communications. And for those of you who 25 don't know what Bromley Communications is, 28 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 it's a Hispanic advertising agency 3 headquartered out of San Antonio. Aside from 4 that, I'm also the Chair of the ARF 5 Multicultural Council as well. 6 Obviously, the challenge of being 7 the last person is not repeating whatever 8 everyone else has said. But I echo everyone 9 else's goals. Clearly, collaboration is 10 first and foremost. 11 But I think that the number one 12 thing as we talk about collaboration and what 13 it means, I think it's honesty. And really 14 being honest about what it is that we want at 15 the end of the day. And not trying to hide 16 that. 17 And then, of course, secondly, 18 being proactive and being able to be 19 forward-thinking. And making sure that this 20 is a springboard at the end of the day of 21 realizing what the future is going to look 22 like. And that we are not going to be 23 reactive; that we will be proactive in 24 understanding what the future needs are. 25 MR. Zackon: I'm Richard Zackon. 29 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 I'm facilitating. And I just want to 3 acknowledge the power of a bell in focusing 4 human beings on the task at hand. So 5 congratulations to everyone. 6 We might have a couple of people 7 on the phone who aren't present today. Is 8 there anyone there on the line? 9 MS. GRIGNON: Yes. It's Perianne 10 Grignon. I'm the Vice President of Media 11 Services of Sears. Hi, Paul, Mark, Richard, 12 everyone else. Thank for you letting me call 13 in today from Chicago. 14 You know, I guess our goals would 15 be insuring quality marketing investments. 16 We volunteered to lead this charter. There 17 are many, many stakeholders throughout the 18 different constituencies in the business that 19 are going to be looking to us to activate the 20 charter. I think that we can do it with what 21 everyone has said with collaboration and 22 listening and creativity. 23 Thanks for letting me call in 24 today. 25 MR. Zackon: Anyone else on the 30 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 line? 3 MR. KEILTY: This is Rick Keilty 4 with Belo. 5 MR. Zackon: You want to share a 6 little with us? 7 MR. DONATO: Rick, you may have 8 missed it. But everybody's just giving a few 9 seconds of what they hope to accomplish in 10 these meetings. 11 MR. KEILTY: I think they were 12 fairly summarized in the documents that you 13 sent out, Richard. And I think, guess, first 14 of all, I'll applaud Nielsen for the efforts 15 here and in becoming, I think, more focused 16 on the goals and objectives of their clients. 17 Certainly, a more customercentric environment 18 we're working in today. 19 And I would suggest that this is 20 an effort on their part to kind of listen and 21 be more responsive. Obviously, the work that 22 they do is critical to all the stakeholders 23 here. And I would hope that we could, as a 24 committee, bring a little bit more focus on 25 the mechanics as to how things are getting 31 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 done with regard to some additional research, 3 which we're prepared to talk about later. 4 MR. Zackon: Anyone else on the 5 call? Okay. 6 As facilitator, let me state 7 something. There's two sheets inside 8 everyone's folder. On the left-hand side a 9 yellow sheet and a green sheet. And we'd 10 like to be able to be working on these during 11 the meeting. So on the yellow sheet we'd ask 12 people to what their top three specific 13 issues are. And you can jot them down 14 without your name on the yellow sheet. And 15 just pass them down to that end of the table. 16 If you're on the phone, you can 17 E-mail them in. We've already gotten some by 18 E-mail. And just each one can be a word, 19 maybe a couple of words. But it gives us an 20 efficient place to start to see what the 21 specific of the concerns are. 22 So if we take a minute to do 23 that, we can begin to tabulate that. And on 24 the second sheet, the green sheet is the 25 dates you won't be available in July. So we 32 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 can schedule the next meeting at a date when 3 the fewest people would have to miss it. 4 Hopefully, nobody. 5 MR. SHIMMEL: Richard, you want 6 to mention the transcriber? 7 MR. Zackon: To my right is our 8 court reporter. All this is being taken 9 down. Your words will live forever publicly. 10 Actually, we have a Web site already up. 11 When is the last time someone told you the 12 Web site is already up? If you go to 13 researchexcellence.com, you'll see your names 14 are there. There's some documents there. 15 And within a few days we'll have the 16 transcript of today's meeting there. So if 17 you have nasty things to say about any of 18 your colleagues or anybody else, it's going 19 to be up on that Web site. 20 MS. FRANK: Is that an open Web 21 site for anyone? 22 MR. Zackon: It is an open Web 23 site. It will be open initially to Nielsen 24 clients. It will extend beyond this group. 25 We may have a private piece of it. We're 33 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 very clear about one of the guidelines here 3 to be transparency. So there shouldn't be 4 behind closed doors events. 5 MS. FRANK: I wasn't sure what 6 the press part of this is. That was not 7 mentioned in any of your guidelines. 8 MR. Zackon: We're free to have 9 conversations. We do not invite the press. 10 We do not have enough sausage. 11 MR. HESS: Rich, do you have 12 rough meeting date guidelines, or I meant to 13 say media guidelines dates? It won't be on 14 Fridays? 15 MR. Zackon: Put a preference on 16 there if you have one. 17 MS. SHAGRIN: Can we E-mail the 18 July dates? 19 MR. Zackon: If you have them 20 we'd like to fix them now. Because people's 21 calendars have to be aligned. People have a 22 habit of taking vacations in the summer. 23 That's a challenge. 24 Pass them down. We'll collect 25 them. We have someone to tabulate them. 34 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. IVIE: Richard, I'm just 3 curious in terms of the top three research 4 issues, does Nielsen have a position on the 5 top three research issues that we can compare 6 the group's position? 7 MR. Zackon: In your packet is 8 what Nielsen's currently working on. There's 9 a list of the projects they're currently 10 working on. So it would be subject matter 11 maybe not to duplicate the efforts, so no. 12 MS. FRANK: You might have 13 mentioned that before. 14 MR. Zackon: This is not your last 15 word on this. This is to get the 16 conversation started. I apologize. 17 If you've already E-mailed your 18 dates, Amber has it. By the way, Amber, do 19 you want to introduce yourself? 20 MS. ROBERTS: Amber Roberts. 21 I'll help Richard facilitate the group, take 22 care of logistics, set up the meetings. But 23 please feel free, you should all have my 24 E-mail by now, to E-mail or call me if you 25 have any concerns. 35 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. KALINE: We'll move on in the 3 agenda now. We'll turn it over to Paul 4 Donato. Would you mind? 5 MR. DONATO: Well, my official 6 welcome and our sincere thanks for coming 7 here today. 8 I guess, like Mark, I'm amazed at 9 the people who are in the room. It really is 10 very, very impressive. And it obviously 11 communicates how important this is. I had 12 another observation. It's an unfortunate 13 observation. That is, that the domain name 14 researchexcellence.com was immediately 15 available to us. Decided to set that up. 16 Pity. 17 So, as I say, some people have 18 come a very long distance. Some people have 19 come from, I think, the 24th floor in this 20 building, John. And we really, really do 21 appreciate it. 22 This idea, it is very much a new 23 model, isn't it? We're really kind of 24 turning things inside out. Nielsen is here 25 just to help and to facilitate and to fund. 36 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 And I'll talk a little bit about, you know, 3 some of the opportunities that we have for 4 resources and funding. 5 It really is about just making 6 better TV ratings. I know that that's kind 7 of a catchall. But I thought it would be 8 useful to describe for you how we really came 9 to this idea. And I'm not sure it was really 10 one of these overnight "ah-hah" experiences. 11 But in a lot of private meetings 12 and if anybody had been going to the ARF 13 accountability days, we started hearing a 14 theme. And the theme was that, you know, 15 tiny changes in methodology can have impact 16 on the numbers. There's no more tiny or big 17 impact on the numbers because a tenth of a 18 rating point is worth a lot of money in the 19 industry. And that we predicate our changes 20 basically on the methodological research that 21 we do. We design and we develop it. We 22 present it. Often we present it to the MRC, 23 which is probably the most formal industry 24 kind of venue for interchanging that 25 information. 37 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 And people have different ideas. 3 People felt that, well, if I looked at 4 something a slightly different way, if I had 5 the opportunity to study it a slightly 6 different way, I might have come up with a 7 slightly different answer. And that slightly 8 different answer really is economically very 9 important. 10 So what people were really saying 11 was, but if I had designed the research I 12 might have looked at things differently, 13 therefore, the outcome would have been 14 different. And we don't really have the 15 resource or the time to do that. 16 And so we felt, well, okay, why 17 don't we think about some sort of a 18 cooperative that we could organize with our 19 clients, such that they really are designing 20 the research. 21 And I guess to Richard's point 22 about the projects which are in your kit 23 here, if you're active with the MRC, you 24 probably know many of those projects. 25 There's about 30 of them. I'm not going to 38 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 take you through them. It would take too 3 long. There are 30 big projects. There are 4 probably another 30 that we're working on 5 that are smaller. 6 It's the kind of thing where 7 you're not going to decide on research today 8 or what research projects you're going to do 9 today. But take it home. Study it. See 10 what we're doing. By all means, call me or 11 Amber or Richard if you have any questions. 12 MR. SHIMMEL: I think it's in our 13 packet. 14 MR. DONATO: I'm sorry. 15 MR. DeVAULT: In the packet. 16 MR. Zackon: It's in the packet 17 today. There's a document that says -- 18 MR. DONATO: That's it. Starts 19 with universe estimates. 20 MR. Zackon: It's the last item. 21 MR. DONATO: I'll illustrate the 22 kind of projects. I think that first one is 23 probably person-based weighting. And I 24 certainly know that there's several people in 25 the room that wonder whether if we weighted 39 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 our samples demographically on a persons 3 basis rather than on a household basis, 4 whether that might not be a more accurate way 5 to do things. Well, there's a schedule in 6 place and a plan in place. And by the end of 7 the year you're going to have all research 8 available from us on there. 9 So don't feel as if you need to 10 sort of expend the $2-1/2 million on that, 11 unless you think you want to do something 12 different than what we are doing. 13 MS. BURNS: So what you're saying 14 is these are already underway. And unless 15 there's something over and above, don't put 16 our resources in them. 17 MS. SHAGRIN: Funded outside. 18 MR. DONATO: That's correct. 19 Absolutely, okay. 20 So the background is we really 21 felt that people that, believe it or not, 22 mostly research, mostly research, not the 23 ratings, but the research that we do that 24 goes into what we weighed on, what we 25 incentivize, has small impacts on the 40 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 numbers. And small impacts on the numbers 3 are worth millions and millions of dollars in 4 the industry. And people were wanting the 5 ability to test their own ideas. And they 6 had neither the resource nor the time to do 7 it. And then, therefore, that is what this 8 cooperative, in some ways it's almost like 9 what a foundation is about. 10 So there's a second objective. 11 And that is from time to time we're not 12 overly sensitive people. But from time to 13 time there's lots of discussion about 14 laughing, you're overly sensitive. 15 There's a lot of discussion about 16 transparency. I'm not going to say whether 17 we're transparent enough or not. I do 18 believe almost certainly, having worked for 19 more television rating services around the 20 world than anybody else, and probably having 21 worked for more syndicated research companies 22 here in the United States than anybody 23 residing in the United States, I do think we 24 are probably -- it's the most transparent. 25 Let me put it this way, it's the most 34 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 transparent operation I have ever seen. 3 Whether it's transparent enough or not is a 4 disturbing question. 5 And therefore, since we've turned 6 inside out, since you're in control of this 7 and since we're here to help and to 8 facilitate, it's a really good sort of, you 9 know, test model trial for us to see how well 10 that works. And we really, really want it to 11 work. Because then that really, really 12 encourages us to sort of look at other parts 13 of what we do. And potentially do the same 14 thing. So we're hoping that people feel like 15 we've moved a couple of feet ahead 16 transparencywise as a consequence. 17 A couple of process issues. 18 We've already talked about the project list. 19 We are also convening what we call a 20 technical advisory committee. And basically, 21 we divided our methodology up into its 22 various segments; sampling, weighting, ethnic 23 issues, effectiveness issues. 24 And we basically had people doing 25 literature search, various searches for the 42 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 notable people in those fields, not in 3 television, but either academic or 4 government. And I think last week we sent 5 out probably in the order of about 20 letters 6 inviting people to participate in what we're 7 calling a technical advisory council. And we 8 will pay them. Basically, they're at your 9 disposal. Doesn't mean that we need all 20 10 in the room at once. 11 But when you're talking about a 12 weighting issue, if you want to design 13 something with respect to weighting, if you 14 want to interpret weighting data, and you 15 want effectively outside statistical counsel, 16 best names that we could find, we will make 17 them available to you. And hopefully you'll 18 be able to kind of work, make the logistics 19 works, whether that's done on phone or in 20 person as you see. 21 So that's really it for me, 22 comments. Again, we're here for support. We 23 have no voting power on this board. We are 24 here for support, to answer any questions. 25 And to help you make this a very successful 43 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 cooperative. 3 MR. KALINE: Paul, if I could 4 just go back to a comment you made on 5 transparency. I think you could really help 6 us out in a couple of areas. 7 First of all, at some point while 8 we all strive for perfection in building the 9 perfect clock as far as rating measurements 10 goes, there are trade-offs in terms of cost 11 and value. If it's an extra 2 percent of 12 accuracy that's going to cost me 30 percent 13 more to do, this group I think could help you 14 make those kinds of decisions and move on. 15 MR. DONATO: Okay. Very good. 16 MR. KALINE: You know, at some 17 point, one of my favorite sayings is, you 18 know, we can't be caught snapping at the ants 19 while the elephant's marching by. 20 So, you know, recognizing that 21 there's a lot of investment that people at 22 this table make in the ratings and research 23 game, where are the trade-offs so that we can 24 do the projects that everybody has just 25 submitted and make sure that those come to 44 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 fruition, so that we are looking towards the 3 future. And not re-engineering, 4 overengineering things in the present to a 5 point where, and while tenths of rating 6 points are very, very important, and I 7 appreciate that, you know, it's again going 8 to come down to what's the value of the 9 medium and what's, or, you know, what are 10 people's perception of the value of the 11 medium. 12 And those are the kinds of things 13 I think that are equally as important that 14 we're going to need your help on in terms of 15 saying, yes. But that's going to take this 16 much more investment to do. And then we can 17 collectively, you know, make that business 18 decision, quite frankly. So your help on 19 that area will be great. 20 MR. DONATO: Very good. We'd be 21 more than happy to help. 22 MR. KALINE: Okay. Richard. 23 MR. Zackon: First of all, let me 24 say, honestly, I'm unabashedly delighted to 25 be here. This is a really great group. A 45 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 lot of people I haven't worked with in a long 3 time. Some people have; some new people. So 4 I'm just full of joy, frankly, about what 5 we're doing here. And part of it is that I 6 really get to be geeky in here. Because this 7 is for the most part a group of people with a 8 lot of research chops. And out of my 9 geekiness, I wanted to restate what a lot of 10 people said. A distinct out-of-game theory. 11 So put your geeky hat on for a second. 12 And in game theory there's a 13 distinction between a zero sum game and a 14 nonzero sum game. And in a zero sum game 15 like poker or baseball or war, there are 16 winners and there are losers. There are 17 pluses and minuses in the encounter. And 18 they balance out. And it's a zero sum in a 19 nonzero sum game. 20 People engaged in some activity. 21 It could be economic trading. It could be 22 something like Habitat For Humanity. It 23 could be learning and education. Where at 24 the end of the day there's actually more than 25 what the group started out with as a whole. 46 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 And I say, when we're in our jobs 3 in media sales and buying, essentially we are 4 playing nonzero sum games. At the end of the 5 day there's a buyer and a seller, two 6 competitors. And there's only so much on the 7 table as that's what's available. 8 And I say as a researcher, what's 9 possible is to enter here into a nonzero sum 10 game. That we're actually able. There's 11 economic reason why we ought work together. 12 Because at the end of the day there'll 13 actually be more on the table than there was 14 at the beginning of the day. 15 So we're going not going to 16 forget our interests. And we're not going to 17 forget where we work and who signs our 18 checks. But we still can honor that. And at 19 the same time, work to allow more for 20 everybody. 21 And to that theme, one thing I 22 observed and was very clear in my office 23 conversations with everybody here is that the 24 business barrier to us doing that. And I'll 25 put this out. That we don't always have 47 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 optimal conversations with one another in 3 settings like this. Those interests become 4 senior. Myself sometimes, my ego, gets 5 engaged. May not happen in your case, but it 6 happens in mine. And so it's the nature of 7 the dialogue or the lack of the real dialogue 8 which I believe in many ways accounts for why 9 we haven't made more progress than we have. 10 And if you think, a lot of the 11 meetings you've attended to and you leave at 12 the end of them and say to yourself, what a 13 waste of time, I believe that has a lot to do 14 with it. 15 So to that end, I recommended 16 that Nielsen buy us all a little present. I 17 don't expect anyone to read the whole thing. 18 It's a brilliant book by William Isaacs an 19 MIT professor who actually brings labor and 20 management together at Ford. If he can do 21 that, maybe we can actually do that here. 22 And it's called "Dialogue and The Art of 23 Thinking Together." 24 And I feel one page that I want 25 to refer to there, if you look in your packet 48 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 you'll see it's a little diagram there. We 3 can do this pretty quickly. Looks like this. 4 It's a little page with arrows. And we're 5 entering, we're beginning entering now a 6 conversation. And the conversation grows 7 into a deliberation where we're weighing out 8 issues, which is what we'll be doing. 9 And we have some choices to make. 10 And the first choice is whether we want to 11 defend a position or are willing for some 12 period of time to suspend our judgment. Down 13 the path to the bottom of defending a 14 position there's a couple of ways that could 15 go. 16 My experience, the way that 17 typically goes is towards the bottom in the 18 form of a debate. And there's position X and 19 there's position not X. And the word debate 20 literally means to beat down. And that's 21 what we do. We disprove vigorously some 22 hypothesis. 23 On a good day when we're doing 24 very well, and it's a great MRC meeting or 25 great ARF meeting or great other meeting, we 49 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 rise to the level of a skillful conversation 3 which the author William Isaacs here calls a 4 dialectic, where points of views are 5 expressed, but expressed skillfully, 6 analytical gifts, hard data to problems, et 7 cetera. 8 What I believe the book is about; 9 more importantly, what I believe this council 10 could be about is in upgrading this 11 conversation to what he calls "generative 12 dialogue," where it presents unprecedent 13 possibilities and new insights. Things that 14 wouldn't have been possible if people hadn't 15 gotten together and were willing to suspend 16 their judgment. 17 So I'm putting that out for this 18 group as a possibility for this group as a 19 model for how we can get from where we are to 20 where we say we like to go. 21 Let me express my commitment. My 22 commitment in this whole process is towards 23 thoughtful dialogue. And I'll continue to 24 stand for thoughtful dialogue and towards 25 excellent research. And my commitment is 50 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 that at the end of the day, beginning today, 3 people walk out and say that was time well 4 spent. So that's what I wanted to say. 5 Thank you. 6 MR. KALINE: Okay. 7 MR. IVIE: Richard, I just wanted 8 to, I don't know if this is an appropriate 9 time, but Paul mentioned that Nielsen doesn't 10 have a voting position on this committee. 11 And I just thought I would enter for the 12 record that I've asked Nielsen as a member of 13 the MRC staff that I'd rather not have a 14 voting position on this committee. That I'd 15 like to be a volunteer observer. But 16 eventually, assuming this group comes up with 17 R&D that eventually makes it into production, 18 I work closely with the CPAs to audit things. 19 And I'd rather be in a position where I 20 didn't vote on implementation of something 21 and then audit it. I'd like to observe the 22 committee and contribute. But I just wanted 23 to enter that. And Richard said that was 24 okay. 25 MR. Zackon: What I actually said, 51 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 more than observe, I invite you to be a 3 participant, and not a voter. And so that's 4 in the nature of the process issues which is 5 our next topic. We're in a very, in fact, 6 we've already passed the point, for the last 7 couple of months I've been working with 8 Nielsen in creating and generating this 9 group. And now it's this group which holds 10 the power. Not Nielsen. And it's really 11 something new. 12 I mean, we began with the client 13 who begins the meeting. Not Nielsen. We're 14 very conscious of doing that. And so the 15 process issues are about the transfer of 16 responsibility from Nielsen over to this 17 group. And the first piece of document there 18 was a charter. 19 I think my proudest 20 accomplishment to date is that I drafted a 21 charter which got through Nielsen's legal 22 team with only two or three changes. So I 23 felt particularly proud of that. 24 Take a look at this. This is 25 essentially a document wherein Nielsen 52 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 creates this group. And there are rules 3 under which this group gets created. I even 4 use the word restrictions there. Because 5 there are certain pieces of it may be 6 worthwhile. The scope is there. You don't 7 have to read this now. You have this. It 8 went out last week. Really states what our 9 purpose is. And it's really a collaborative 10 purpose. We have intended outcomes. 11 There's a vision. I will read 12 the vision. The vision is time spent on 13 thoughtful dialogue generating excellent 14 research. And the values, and these values, 15 frankly, have already been tested in 16 practice. And putting this group together, 17 preparing for the meeting and the values 18 we're going towards are transparency, 19 inclusiveness, diversity, imagination, 20 collegiality, practicality and client 21 leadership. 22 And the emphasis in there is on 23 client leadership. Because this will be 24 successful to the degree that the people 25 around this table, not counting Howard and 53 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 Paul, really own this process. And so I'm 3 available to this council to support that. 4 I'm available to Nielsen to support it. But 5 now it's the clients who are in the lead. 6 It's you who are in the lead. The 7 authorities are there. The resources are 8 there. Roles and responsibilities. I'm 9 trying to think if that's anything that 10 wasn't already mentioned. 11 Now, we have two pieces of 12 business today to make this structure work. 13 The first is as great as this group was with 14 the bell. I don't think we're going to do 15 our best work if we're always meeting in a 16 group of about 30 people or more. 17 So we felt the best way to handle 18 that is to have a smaller group created by 19 this group which works between the meetings, 20 comes back, makes recommendations. And this 21 group is a deliberative body and a body for 22 approval. The ultimate authority rests here. 23 So we're going to need today, 24 which we'll do in a little bit, to select a 25 subgroup, a steering committee with the idea 54 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 being it's representative of the group. The 3 basic interests are there. And then that 4 group will meet between now and the next 5 board meeting. 6 The other piece of business is to 7 select a leader for the group. Now, again, 8 how much authority does Nielsen have? We 9 needed to have a leader for the first day. 10 So we picked a chair for the first day. And 11 I was very impressed. I saw Mark at the ARF 12 meeting. And Mark got up there and said, I 13 believe in speaking softly and carrying a 14 billion dollar budget. And I said that's a 15 good guy to lead this group. 16 And Mark has agreed to lead this 17 group for the first day. He may do such a 18 great job, by acclaim we want him to continue 19 leading. But this group needs to select its 20 own leader. It's not for Nielsen to select a 21 leader. So that's a piece of business to get 22 to. 23 MR. BROOKS: Richard. 24 MR. Zackon: Yes. 25 MR. BROOKS: Just back up a 55 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 little bit. I think it's important. And I 3 just want to put this on the record, that 4 this group is a subset of the industry of the 5 industry that we are representing or saying 6 we're representing here. It's kind of the 7 Iraqi interim government. I guess kind of 8 hand-picked. Proud to be here. It's an 9 impressive group. 10 Nevertheless, there are plenty of 11 advertisers; major ones who aren't 12 represented here. Many others not 13 represented here. And other stakeholders who 14 by the nature of limiting it to one room 15 aren't here. And I think that the group 16 needs to commit itself to a process of 17 communication and validation and by 18 appropriate channels which will involve the 19 rest of the industry. 20 And I think I would suggest that 21 those appropriate channels might be the trade 22 organizations such as the ANA, the CAB, the 23 TVB, and so forth, which have a broad 24 representation. Because I feel I can tell 25 you, in addition to representing whatever I 56 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 can bring here myself and Betsy and a few 3 others, are representing a much larger group 4 of people, as is Mark and are the others. So 5 that wasn't spelled out too clearly in here. 6 But I think that needs to be part of our 7 charter. 8 MR. Zackon: Thank for you 9 bringing it forth. So we did seek to get the 10 chairs and the key people at those major 11 organizations. And we are all here for 12 everyone, including nonclients of Nielsen who 13 have an interest in the measurement of 14 television. And how we do that will play 15 out. 16 We're keeping this open. There 17 will be what we're calling town meetings. We 18 expect that they're on some of the 19 subcommittee meetings. They might want to be 20 open to people in a particular interest in a 21 particular topic. Even looking at the idea 22 of an electronic suggestion box on the Web 23 site for anyone anywhere who has a 24 suggestion, but put enough together people 25 who'll get some good idea. I've already 57 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 volunteered to read them. So the sense of 3 openess and inclusiveness is very real. And 4 thank you for that. Bruce. 5 MR. GOERLICH: Question for you 6 sort of related to the charter and purpose. 7 Obviously for us to develop, I should step 8 back, I just, also I didn't say this. But I 9 do want to thank Nielsen for putting us 10 together. I just want to say that in my 11 comment. 12 The charter talks about 13 supervision research projects and coming up 14 with them. Is there a disconnect between 15 what Nielsen is currently doing and then what 16 we're going to be asked to do? Because 17 obviously, from my perspective, I think it 18 would be very, very useful for us to really 19 understand, more than this handout, exactly 20 what's going on here now. 21 For me to come up with a research 22 project or recommend a direction without 23 fully understanding the efforts that are now 24 in the field, I think could lead us down a 25 blind alley. 58 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 So would it be under the purview 3 of this committee to essentially have a 4 review of what Nielsen is doing now to 5 understand that? That's one end of the 6 spectrum. 7 And then I will just be fairly 8 dramatic and say the other end of the 9 spectrum is sort of this group to have more 10 control and oversight of what Nielsen's doing 11 now, which I know is outside of kind of the 12 current charter, but these are sort of 13 interrelated in that there's a huge amount of 14 work that Nielsen's doing now we're being 15 asked to do new things. I think it's 16 difficult in my mind to separate those two. 17 And I am wondering what Nielsen 18 feels about that separation and what other 19 people feel if it's appropriate to ask this 20 question at this point in time. 21 MR. Zackon: We're melding into 22 the Q & A. So let's say, yes, it's probably 23 a better structure. I guess, it's 24 appropriate. 25 Paul, is there something you want 59 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 to say? 3 MR. DONATO: I do think that you 4 need more than that two-page handout to 5 really understand the depth of what's in each 6 of those projects. And I think what we 7 envisioned was probably some sort of a 8 presentation to you, not overly burdensome, 9 but so that you clearly understand what we 10 are doing. So that goes to your first point. 11 Whether that has to be today, you 12 were using the word now. I wasn't sure 13 whether you were talking about research you 14 are doing now or do the presentation now. 15 MR. Zackon: Research you are 16 doing now. 17 MR. DONATO: So, yes, we need 18 that. And maybe that will be the logical 19 starting off point for the next meeting. If 20 in the next meeting you're really going to 21 get down to the nitty-gritty of starting to 22 kind of structure you're thinking on what 23 research needs to be done. 24 On the second point, we are very 25 conscious of having clients involved in our 60 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 R&D. There are certainly certain situations 3 even in the past year where we did what we 4 felt was really good stuff going down a road. 5 Doing a lot of R&D. And we probably did as 6 good a job as we should have notifying 7 clients as to what the nature of the R&D was. 8 And so we sort of had to play hurry-up 9 catch-up midway through. 10 So, you know, we are transparent 11 about all of our research. I'm happy to do 12 presentations. In terms of -- actually 13 control is harsh word, but in terms of 14 actually controlling it, I don't think 15 Nielsen will cede control for that R&D. But 16 we certainly will present completely 17 transparently what we are doing, what the 18 results are. And if there are suggestions to 19 deliberate, those suggestions with individual 20 clients or with this group as the group sees 21 fit. 22 MR. DeVAULT: Richard. 23 MR. Zackon: Yes. 24 MR. DeVAULT: Paul, one of the 25 things that I had brought to Richard's 61 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 attention is that you guys have done a lot of 3 research in the past and you have a library 4 of research. Will that be available to this 5 committee also? 6 MR. DONATO: Absolutely. 7 MR. DeVAULT: I ask if we make 8 decisions going forward, we actually have the 9 benefit of that. 10 MR. DONATO: What we should do, I 11 don't think we actually thought about it. 12 That what we should really do is really 13 compile some sort of listing of all research 14 projects going back over the last ten years, 15 so you can kind of look through it like a 16 card catalog and let you know what's 17 available. 18 MR. Zackon: Question down on the 19 other side. 20 MS. SHAGRIN: Paul, if you plan 21 to do some sort of presentation on the 22 research that's already underway, do you 23 think it's a good idea to get everybody up on 24 the same level of where that's going, if you 25 could include in that some sort of a 62 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 timetable and expectations. Because it may 3 be that you have some research underway 4 that's going to end in December, just to 5 throw out a date. 6 And we look at that and say, 7 well, based on that research, we have some 8 questions we'd like answered that could start 9 maybe in December and build on what you've 10 already done. So not to control what you're 11 doing, not to interfere with what you're 12 doing, but to sort of merge or meld the two 13 to see if we can get the most out of it. 14 MR. DONATO: I understand. 15 MR. KALINE: Ceril, you're 16 echoing, Paul knows, the ANA, had this 17 conversation with Nielsen. Because at some 18 point it's about not only understanding what 19 Nielsen is working on, but can we help shape 20 the priority of what they're working on. Are 21 there things that by the time they are done 22 are no longer going to be issues, or could be 23 by-products of other studies or other methods 24 that we use. 25 So I was absolutely floored when 63 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 I saw the length of the list of the things 3 that they're working on. Because we tend to 4 pick them off in individual discussions on 5 LPM or the AP meter or whatever it happens to 6 be. 7 And you never see it collectively 8 in one place. And I think, if anything, you 9 know, whether it's control, and that's a 10 harsh term, but guidance in terms of, you 11 know, what we see in our collective forecast 12 as being maybe there were issues a year ago 13 even. But who would have thought we'd be 14 where we are today with certain things even a 15 year ago. 16 So, you know, helping to shape 17 that list I think is an important part of 18 what we do to. Sorry Jessica. 19 MS. PANTANINI: No, that's okay. 20 I'd also like to suggest or 21 recommend I think one of the things that has 22 been a gap that has existed is that the 23 changes that are implemented at Nielsen, the 24 way in which they're communicated doesn't 25 allow for a dialogue between the constituents 64 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 or the stakeholders to be able to give 3 feedback to say the results of this will 4 imply X, Y and Z. And so, therefore, in 5 order to prepare our advertisers, who, at the 6 end of the day, are the ones that are paying 7 the bills, we've got to do A, B, C. And I 8 think that that is something that we can help 9 with moving forward. 10 MR. BROOKS: And Richard, I think 11 we have to be careful about lists too. There 12 are some issues that are important issues. I 13 feel are important. I'm sure others do too. 14 And the fact that that is on a list does not 15 mean it's necessarily being addressed in the 16 way that I would find comforting. 17 For example, there's something 18 here about incentives. And as far as I'm 19 concerned, the work that's been done on 20 niches in the past which may have been 21 appropriate to past issues are wholly 22 inadequate for what we are facing today when 23 incentives are being used in a much different 24 way in different economic groups for 25 different purposes. And therefore, any 65 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 investigation of that particular field now 3 needs to be done differently than it was done 4 in the past. 5 Now, perhaps going forward it 6 will be. I don't know. But I think that in 7 shaping that line there I want not only 8 transparency into what Nielsen is doing, but 9 I want to know if it meets the standard, 10 group thinks it meets the standard today. 11 MR. Zackon: I'm going to 12 intervene as the facilitator. That my eyes 13 are focused on our fund. There are a lot of 14 other R&D issues at Nielsen. And we're not 15 going to be able to handle them all here this 16 morning. 17 I think they're all fair to look 18 at for a smaller group and consider. Maybe 19 bring them back here if the group decides. 20 But looking at the time and the scope of what 21 we have before us and say there's time to 22 discuss that, it may or may not fall within 23 the charter of this group. And if this group 24 wants to revise that, we're free to explore 25 that. 66 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. WURTZEL: Can we actually 3 maybe sort of come to an agreement on what 4 we're supposed to be doing. Just to throw 5 this out. Are we like the Ford Foundation or 6 the Marco Foundation? We've got 2.5 million 7 bucks. And what we want to do is find two or 8 three important methodological issues which 9 we give not to Nielsen? 10 In other words, the whole point 11 is that we go out and find people, whether 12 they're academics or whether they're industry 13 consultants who have a facility to use 14 Nielsen. They get to go to Nielsen. They 15 get to have Nielsen work with them and sort 16 of providing them with the data that they 17 need. But the whole idea is that they're 18 totally independent. 19 Because, frankly, I think you're 20 right, Richard. This whole list here is a 21 business list. Nielsen's a business. They 22 have to do R&D research. That's a whole 23 separate issue it seems to me. This group 24 may want to deal with it later on. But right 25 now my view would be that the whole idea 67 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 we've got to figure out a way that we granted 3 three or four projects to people who can then 4 come back. And the whole idea is it's not 5 Nielsen that goes to Jim's point where the 6 methodology would be an RFP is what we would 7 essentially want to agree that we want to 8 see. 9 It's not got a technical level 10 that we would feel is appropriate. And then 11 hopefully the data we will get back will then 12 be transferred to Nielsen as to how we feel 13 some of the results would be applied to 14 whatever issues it was. That's a legitimate 15 way to think about it. I think it helps us 16 clear out some of the -- 17 MR. DONATO: If that's what you 18 wanted to do in whole or in part, then that's 19 what you should do. 20 MR. Zackon: I think Nielsen would 21 have the right to bid on the research. But 22 it's up to this group as to whether or not 23 they get the bid. 24 MR. WURTZEL: Again, what's the 25 point? Nielsen is a business. And we are 68 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 all clients of Nielsen. We get that stuff. 3 You know, I don't want to -- I'm simply 4 saying to me, the whole point, the things 5 that make this unique is for the first time 6 independent people can do research because 7 Nielsen always does research. There's an 8 issue with the research they do. And I don't 9 mean to be facetious on that. I'm simply 10 saying it's almost that like if we feel there 11 are some really important issues here that 12 need to be addressed in a different way, it's 13 kind of refreshing to see how somebody else 14 who isn't forest or the trees that is Nielsen 15 would approach it. 16 We really very much expected you 17 to want to do that. That really was the 18 spirit behind it. And when we had 19 conversations about it. We felt that there 20 might be some things you wanted to do, that 21 in a practical sense, somehow or another, 22 Nielsen is going to have to be involved. 23 Either hardware, you're not going to pay 24 somebody to go out and replicate a hardware. 25 We understood that. And that was the spirit. 69 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. WURTZEL: And certainly there 3 will be a collaboration. One of the real 4 issues to Nielsen, are you guys prepared to 5 spend money on something that you don't want 6 to know the answer? 7 MR. DONATO: Yes. There's some 8 of those on that list. 9 MR. STERNBERG: Has there been 10 any thought given to overhauling Nielsen's 11 system to accommodate any new data? Because, 12 you know, there are few things as frustrating 13 as everybody in the room agreeing on 14 something that should become a Nielsen 15 product and then Nielsen coming back to us 16 and saying, well, our system can't 17 accommodate that data. We can't do that many 18 streams of data for at least another two 19 years. 20 MR. DONATO: I guess it's sort of 21 a general question. I guess we have to 22 handle it on an ad hoc basis. Because I 23 think it depends on the nature of what the 24 data requirements are. 25 MR. POLTRACK: Can I give you a 70 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 more specific which is relevant, relevant to 3 the $2.5 million? 4 Is the $2.5 million a fixed 5 amount out-of-pocket that does not include 6 information that could be gotten from Nielsen 7 without a variable? 8 In other words, if we wanted to 9 get the greatest repository of information, 10 is Nielsen, okay, so is there an internal 11 operation going to be working within Nielsen? 12 Are we going to be able to get 13 access to data and things that is not going 14 to come out of the $2.5 million? 15 MR. DONATO: Yes. That's a 16 pretty black and white question. But there's 17 a little bit of gray in the middle. 18 No management time is charged to 19 the project. No sort of regular kind of 20 business, like getting data, no. If we need 21 field people, if we have to go out and hire 22 field people... 23 MR. POLTRACK: To spend money, 24 obviously that's going to come out. 25 MR. DONATO: Separate panel of 71 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 any number of households. Because it's 3 something you wanted to try. And Lord knows, 4 George would know that typically the way we 5 wind up doing that is hiring a separate group 6 of people rather than change the household to 7 person ratio, then that would be charged. 8 MR. HESS: Against the 2.5 9 million? 10 MR. DONATO: Yes. Kind of, this 11 is overly simplistic. But kind of field 12 should have, that requires us to go out and 13 hire people and do field stuff, probably 14 would go against the 2.5. But most other 15 things, I think you can imagine, wouldn't. 16 MR. POLTRACK: Without the normal 17 sort of markup, right? 18 MR. DONATO: No markup. 19 MR. DeVAULT: Paul, if we wanted 20 to create a study where we could go back and 21 recontact people who had been in samples, 22 would Nielsen be agreeable to providing 23 information to us? 24 MR. DONATO: Sure, yes. 25 Actually, the industry, before our next 72 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 meeting you'll be getting a number of 3 proposals from us that are listed on that 4 list where we are, ourselves, plan on doing a 5 lot of that. So that's fine. 6 MR. Zackon: Excuse me? 7 MR. GOERLICH: I think Alan 8 really crystalized it for me. I like the 9 perspective that this is sort of like the 10 Ford Foundation where we have 2.5 million to 11 spend in grants and these research projects 12 are business projects of Nielsen. 13 I think, just to summarize, I 14 think it will be important for us to before 15 we do any grants, before we set projects, to 16 really understand what Nielsen is doing in 17 depth, so we; A, don't duplicate; B, don't 18 make mistakes; and C, as Ceril said, sort of 19 piggyback on learning. 20 So I think if that's kind of the 21 approach, I'm very comfortable with that. 22 I'm not sure that that is all crystalized in 23 the wording of the charter. But I do think 24 that's a direction that it's much clearer to 25 me now. And something that I feel very 73 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 comfortable with, if that is the true 3 direction. 4 MS. SHAGRIN: An example that I 5 would say, building on what Tim said, would 6 be to say, okay, you're doing some incentive 7 testing. But we as a group may decide we may 8 want to do a more complex cast of incentives. 9 And you might want to hire somebody to go out 10 and test their incentives independent of the 11 things you are doing. You know, I could see 12 that as a piggyback onto what you're doing; 13 not duplicating what you're doing. 14 MR. DONATO: Okay. 15 MR. Zackon: Let me ask in terms 16 of facilitating on the fly. I had thought it 17 would be a good idea to break into smaller 18 groups for a loud discussion. 19 On the other hand, I'm 20 appreciating the discussion that's happening 21 now. So if we'd like to continue staying in 22 here with this single discussion, just raise 23 your hands. That seems to be the sense. I 24 think that makes more sense. 25 MR. DONATO: Many of us know each 74 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 other. 3 MR. Zackon: We're behaving so 4 nicely with each other. 5 MS. BURNS: If we're going to be 6 a concensus, we'll all be hearing what we're 7 saying. 8 MR. Zackon: Leave the floor open 9 for QA. 10 MR. SUSSMAN: I have a question. 11 We've been talking about methodological 12 research and how to better our understanding. 13 Is Nielsen prepared at any point 14 or is it something we might want to look at, 15 the guidelines and use of the data? All 16 these numbers are going out and people are 17 using it like it's a real number and real 18 estimates of audience. And Nielsen's has 19 always stepped away from really telling media 20 how to use it. They just kind of produced 21 it. And maybe we want to get a better idea 22 of the proper way of using the data. 23 MR. DONATO: Well, this isn't an 24 answer so much as a status report. There's 25 something that we have delivered to the four 75 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 As on the standard error associated with 3 schedules. And we can make that, and the 4 research library, we can make that available. 5 I believe we've also done, and I'm looking to 6 you, similar work in terms of perhaps cable 7 and also perhaps I think a local market 8 basis. 9 MR. SHIMMEL: Right. 10 MR. DONATO: We're also working 11 on them. So by the next meeting we kind of 12 memorialize what's in that. This is kind of 13 a little start-off anyway, seeing the work 14 that we have done. And then if you want to 15 piggyback on that, then you should come back 16 to us and tell us where you think we should 17 migrate it too. 18 MR. REARDON: Paul, really what 19 we're doing is measuring human behavior. 20 We're trying to find out what they do. What 21 are the obstacles and what types of people 22 aren't we measuring because of their 23 behavioral patterns that maybe for this 24 research we can bring forth and get more 25 accurate measurement. 76 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. DONATO: That's certainly, 3 responsewise, whatever the number is. The 4 other 50 percent, the other 60 percent that 5 we don't measure, in my view, is probably one 6 of the leading issues associated with the 7 accuracy of television audience estimates and 8 all audience estimates for all media. I 9 think it's a very important issue. 10 MS. FRANK: One observation that 11 that I have where I think this group could 12 really be effective in taking Nielsen beyond 13 this very important list or taking whoever, 14 or taking our industry beyond this list, and, 15 you know, I think somebody mentioned it. And 16 it really needs to be reiterated that we're 17 talking about, I don't know, a five-year 18 plan, a three-year plan. I think a lot of 19 the things on this list are very reactive, 20 you know. And I think there has been, you 21 know, it's easy to see something coming after 22 it's like been there for a while. 23 MR. DONATO: Right. 24 MS. FRANK: But how this group 25 because of all our backgrounds and all our, 77 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 you know, differing groups of partners and 3 clients can help kind of figure out what our 4 world is going to look like in five years or 5 three years. And then maybe work backwards 6 from there to figure out what we need to do 7 in order to make sure we're in the best 8 position to value it, measure it, understand 9 it, whatever. So I think that future focus 10 is something we always have to be cognizant 11 of. 12 Go ahead, Jack. 13 MR. WAKSHLAG: Once again, I 14 violently agree with Betsy. 15 MS. FRANK: This has been 16 happening much to much, Jack. 17 MR. WAKSHLAG: I'm sitting here 18 and I'm a kid in a sandbox. Nielsen has 19 given me $2-1/2 million to spend on almost 20 any kind of research we can come up with to 21 help us figure out what the future is. This 22 is not about incentives and 50 cents or a 23 dollar. This is about if we sit here and we 24 said what's the world going to be like five 25 years from now. And we come up with the 78 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 measurement system that we believe is ideal 3 or as close as we can get to that, 4 conceptually at least. Then you work 5 backwards and say how do we get there and 6 spend some money to see if we can, you know. 7 I'm sitting here saying, you 8 know, let's think. We're big thinkers here. 9 So let's think about what it is that would 10 help Mark get value out of media. Design it. 11 And see if there's a way to get there. 12 MS. BURNS: Which goes back to 13 what I had said at the very beginning. 14 Before you measure it you have to understand 15 it. And the understanding is the human 16 behavior. And we've just got to understand 17 all these new media. Because it's not just 18 television. Now the cell phone's called the 19 third screen. Television is ubiquitous. 20 It's not just on that thing that sits in your 21 den any more. So I think we need to 22 understand human behavior. How we're using 23 the new media. When you understand how it's 24 used, then you set up the measurement. 25 In the past I've seen too many 79 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 times we measure it and only realize this 3 data doesn't make sense. We go back in and 4 realize how it was measured. And say, well, 5 that's not the way people really use media. 6 You have to understand how people use the 7 media before you measure it. 8 So to Jack's point and Betsy's, I 9 think it's about this is great sandbox. 10 Let's just understand how media's being used 11 today and in the future to then set up the 12 measurement system. 13 MR. Zackon: Pat. 14 MS. LIGUORI: I think we have to 15 resist the temptation to stay in our comfort 16 zone, which is to research more of what is on 17 Nielsen's list. Having said that I don't 18 think we can ignore what they're doing. And 19 I think whatever we do here we should, you 20 know, have an eye toward how it can be 21 implemented and those things. But our 22 primary focus should be outside of the box. 23 I tend to agree with Alan and 24 Jack, that this is an opportunity. The 25 future is very important. And we've been 80 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 reactive, we, as an industry, to the changes. 3 And I think this is an opportunity to step 4 away from these issues. 5 There are other committees 6 looking at these issues which many of us are 7 on. So, you know, they will have attention. 8 And they will have more attention because of 9 this additional subcommittee. But this is an 10 opportunity that we don't have, that we've 11 never had to do something different that will 12 help us deal five years, ten years down the 13 road. 14 MR. Zackon: One of the ideas that 15 Paul, and it's really great that we're at 16 this point now, because we're much earlier in 17 the process than I thought would happen, 18 looking outside the box, is to have, take a 19 day out sometime late summer, maybe bring 20 whoever can come together for kind of a 21 day-long brainstorming session in this area. 22 That, in fact, I already thought 23 of an idea. A guy like Jim Spaeth I think 24 everybody knows. Jim Spaeth be great in a 25 meeting like that. Stimulate everybody's 81 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 thinking big before entering into projects. 3 But that would be an issue for the steering 4 committee to come back to this group and 5 recommend. But getting to those bigger 6 outside-the-box issues, it's great that we're 7 already engaged in that now. 8 MS. SHAGRIN: I think the issue 9 is order a crystal ball. 10 MR. WAKSHLAG: I got the book. 11 MS. SHAGRIN: We should look into 12 those crystal balls and then come up with 13 visions. And then sort of get a concensus of 14 what the purist vision is. And then taking 15 what we need, what we already know and want 16 to learn about behavior. Then determine what 17 information we will need and then what 18 research. Is there some research that's 19 necessary to validate that kind of 20 information. 21 The end result, we can provide 22 Nielsen with some direction as to what they 23 need to be doing systemswise and 24 measurementwise, so when the future is now we 25 have the data we need. 82 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 MR. WURTZEL: Paul, is this 2.5 3 million an annual grant, or this a one-time? 4 No, I'm serious. 5 MR. DONATO: It was done in 6 anticipation that this program will continue. 7 MS. BURNS: Its allocated for the 8 next year? 9 MR. DONATO: Yes. Next 12 10 months. Between this time and next year it's 11 2.5 million. We're anticipating, we're 12 hoping that the project is successful and 13 that we can continue. 14 MR. Zackon: I'm actually hoping 15 that the project is successful and the fund 16 grows. But that's to be seen. But we have 17 2.5 million for this year. 18 MR. DONATO: For the next 12 19 months. Not for 2005, but between now and 20 May 2006. 21 MR. BROOKS: Richard, are we 22 going to see what was on those green sheets? 23 MR. Zackon: They're coming back. 24 They're being calculated. So we will all get 25 to see what the totals are. We're not 83 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 deciding today what the project is. 3 MR. BROOKS: But I'd like to see 4 what the range is. 5 MR. Zackon: Is that the sheet, 6 the dates on them? 7 MR. BROOKS: Whichever had the 8 numbers on them. 9 MR. Zackon: Its being calculated 10 now by a senior research analyst by Nielsen. 11 Not analyst. 12 MR. IVIE: I just wanted to make 13 a couple of points based on a lot of things 14 that have been said. One thing that hasn't 15 been said, looking at the list that Nielsen 16 put out of research projects, and you may be 17 sort of scratching your head why is this 18 here, why is this not here. Quite a few of 19 these research projects originate with audit 20 findings or something similar. And upwards 21 of 80 percent of this group, their 22 organizations are members of the MRC. 23 So one of the issues that we have 24 with audit findings is that, you know, the 25 MRC looks at those and tries to assign a 84 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 priority in terms of fixing production for 3 production environment. But that's not a 4 forward-looking, you know, crystal ball kind 5 of approach to doing things. 6 So I think it would be natural to 7 look at this list and say for the approach 8 where you're thinking about crystal ball, 9 this list is pretty inadequate. 10 Now, if you look at metering, 11 where Paul has set up a meter lab and things 12 like that, there are some things in here. 13 But a lot of the other areas, they're really 14 reactionary. And nobody said it. But I just 15 want to put out on the table the background 16 why that is the way it is; at least my 17 thought as to why that is the way it is. 18 The other point I want to make is 19 that if we're really going to establish a 20 vision and work towards that, we might want 21 to step back and really look around the room 22 here and say do we have that expertise. 23 So this might be the first best 24 use of this technical group that Nielsen's 25 going to make available to us. Maybe to talk 85 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 to people in the consumer electronics 3 business or the telecommunications business, 4 or, you know, we have Jonathan Sims here from 5 Cable MSO. You know, people that are going 6 to be delivering the media consumption 7 environment to households. And start with 8 that. I see that as one side. 9 And then the other side is we 10 have Mark Kaline here and other people that 11 are going to be the end reliers and 12 decision-makers from a buying perspective. 13 Maybe we look at that side too. 14 So we, say, in the year 2010 what 15 does the media consumption environment look 16 like. And do we have any knowledge of what 17 the end-use of the data goals are. And then 18 we work to fill the vision in the middle 19 which would be how would you link the 20 consumption environment with the goals. 21 I just want to comment on the 22 structure. 23 MR. DONATO: George, let me just 24 comment. I think those are very good 25 suggestions. The technical subcommittee is 86 1 INAUGURAL MEETING - June 8, 2005 2 heavy on statisticians, service sampling, 3 sociologists. 4 As a matter of fact, Larry is a 5 very noted sociologist in the area we're 6 talking about. The ethnic behavior. Let's 7 see, sociologists, psychologists, social 8 psychologists, I think. 9 MR. IVIE: I think that raises a 10 good point. I didn't address that. But that 11 could be another aspect. 12 MR. DONATO: I think we're light 13 on consumer electronics and engineering. So 14 we'll go back and talk about that. That's a 15 good void to fill. And we will do that. 16 MR. GOERLICH: George, may I even 17 suggest in the future we think about forget 18 who they talk to when they created that 19 artificial intelligence. But really, who's 20 sort of thinking about what the world's going 21 to be. 22 MR. DONATO: We have Annenberg 23 people. We're trying to get, we j